Ski length, and why it relates to height. . .

I am curious as to why ski length relates to height and not just skiing ablility? One of the difficulties I have run into is that I am fairly tall (6'2") which would in theory put me on approx. 180cm skis. But this seems to make it difficult for me to control them. I have not skied a lot, and tried again this year for the first time in several years. My rentals were 150's which were extremely easy to stop/skid with. Please don't yell at me Pavelski! The concept of carving fascinates me, but I don't know how realistic it is for a beginner at an east coast resort with only manmade snow(ice if you prefer) and rental skis.

I plan on buying skis and boots after this season is over. I also plan on trying to tune them myself since apparently with my local snow conditions sharp edges are a must. One of my other sports is mountain biking, and I do all my own work on my bike, including lacing up my own wheels. So, sharpening/waxing my own skis should not be out of my reach.

Any advice I could get on skis to look for would be great! I want to learn to ski well, and not have to buy skis in two years because I "outgrew" my first ones.

I hope this all makes some kind of sense! Pavelski - what part of the country are you from? I want lessons! I very much enjoy reading you and Trencher's posts. True professionals have a certain way about them, and you all convey that easily.

Thanks!

Dean

Hi Dean,

Good question, I think I will defer to the experts on this but my understanding is that the shorter the ski the easier it is to control but the longer the ski the quicker it will go, the hight thing is to get the closest balance between the two.

If you are a more advanced skier you will pick a longer ski in general.

I think that if you hire skis it will depend on the resort that you go to. Some resorts will give you shorte skis resorts like Maria Alm in Austria and the instructors will advise you to buy a shorter ski where as Resorts Like St Anton will advise you to buy a longer ski.

I don't know if you remember the skis in the old days but they were huge, skis have become progressively shorter in general over the years.

There are other factors that can make certain skis easier than others as well.

These are just my thoughts by the way, I am not an expert I look forward to seeing what the experts have to say on this.

Cheers

Max

Man made, east coast snow is the best reason to learn to carve. You will be suprised at how well the edges grip, even when the snow seems almost icey.

Skis have become quite specialised in recent years. As Max says, unless you want to go very fast, long skis are not needed for the conditions you are encountering. Side cut radius is more important. Shorter skis are easy to handle (especially when it's crowded) and shorter skis will normally have a smaller radius sidecut. This is important as this smaller radius sidecut will allow you to learn to carve at lower speeds. So rather than worry about length, I would look for skis with a 10 to 12 metre radius side cut. These will proberbly be in the 156 to 165 cm range for length. Try to find something that is soft flexing to start with (not a slalom race ski). This will be relative to your weight and I guess that's where the height comes - taller =heavier.

If you are commited to this sport, you might have to accept the fact that the best skis to learn on, are not going to be what you want in two seasons time. By then you may well want something longer and faster, but that would hinder your progress now.

Trencher

Well, considering I weigh in at about 150. . . :lol: The weight doesn't always come with the height!

Dshenberger, you are the same height and weight as me!! When i was skiing last year i had 175s but i think somewhere around 170 would be easier for me, as i prefer shorter skis. So i will have 170s to try when i go in a week.

Dean,
Those short "easy" questions are the ones that reveal deep issues. Yours is one of them.

Thanks for the information about your body type. What you forgot to include, is your ski type. How do you ski ( speed, type of turn, type of terrain).

There is no longer any set rules and most guidelines are for Mr. Average.
Your physionomy puts you in the extreme range. Rare is the 6'2" at 150. You are called the perfect Ectomorphy ( see Sheldon's body types for analysis of your personality)

Let's clarify the short and long issue as far as speed. The speed of skiing is caused and maintained by the skier NOT the ski! So a longer ski does not go faster ( that is more due to waxing and tuning). What longer skis do is have more stability as speed increases and a sidecut with greater radius ( 21 M). Please note it is NOT just length that creates this stabilty since I can take a twin tip 180 cm ski and it would not be more stable than a 165 cm. SL ski.

The stability is the product of; length, ski design, ski core products, ski stability plate. It is the interaction of all of these that make the ski "fast or more stable"

Skiers must know how they would like to ski,where they typically ski and yes their physical body types.


Let's look now at short skis and ease of turn.

Yes shorter the ski ,,,,easier it is to turn! If that is all you want to do then get 140 cm boards! However there are some negatives to "short" skis.

They are;
1. If skier does not have correct technique, body rotational turns will creep in. ( 80% of skier suffer this ski infection).

2. Short skis limit performance range of skiing. That is skiing will be great in a specific type of terrain with specific type of skiing. Go outside this range......you are "frustrated" I have seen 6,2" skiers doing great turns with 165 cm skis but the second the skis pick up speed the tips start to wander!!!!

3. Physical limits of ski core. Rarely do ski companies speak of ski delaminations but they do occur as do; tip bends, edges breaks, bindings rip-offs ( units pulled out) and sectional breaks. I collect "broken" skis from ski shops, racing clubs and ski companies in order to show my tuning classes the weak areas of skis. Every ski has these weak areas and I have found that many breaks occur just before or just after internal vibration plates! I have seen many racing SL skis broken by strong male skiers with 165 cm skis. Many skis now have rails for bindings. Let us see what their limits are!!!

You have to determine how much "turn" pleasure you want in reference to ; life of ski , type of skiing you do, and technical competence level.

Since you are "unique" you decide what range you want to ski.

May I give you an illustration.
I used to ski 210 cm superG skis since I skied fast and wanted stability.

Over the years the slopes got more crowded, skis got better and I have found that I can take a 180 cm GS ski and get same stability. I know because I still have my Volkl super G skis so once in a while I take dust off and ski with them. Then I will take new skis and follow same path at same speed. I am amazed how good the new skis are!

As mentioned previously the new skis are great AT WHAT THEY ARE DESIGNED FOR, and I have noted that this performance range is getting narrower ! That is these new skis often are great for ice, or crud, or powder. My Atomic 12 are like missiles on easter slopes but in 15 cm powder they "sink" in.

Make me a inventory of the kind of skiing you do, where you do your skiing and I will give you a list of possible skis. Send this via PM and I will send you a list of some skis I have which you can try! You have deduced correctly that I am in the eastern skiing region. I will be in Sunday River for two weeks testing the 2007 model skis.

Hope this has cleared the air for you. Sorry if I did not give you specific skis and specific lengths, that is for you to determine.

All great info above. My $.02 worth. I think that ski flex (longways) to weight ratio is crucial - much more important than height to ski length. That said, if you want a good carving ski it must have the torsional rigidity to maintain its edge grip fore and aft under considerable stress - otherwise, it will carve only so far and no more. Race skis have the best torsional to longitudinal stiffness characteristics and so I think they are the ticket. Plus, you can pick them up year old new stock for about half price which is a helluva deal for great skis. You must find one in a flex that you can bend. This is important because the sidecut only starts the turn. In a carve you are riding the ski decambered - the shape of the backbend, how much the ski is counter flexed, defines the radius of the turn, not the sidecut. There are increasing numbers of rec skis on the market with similar construction to race skis - quality wood core, titanium and carbon fiber laminates for torsional stiffness and dampening; however, they tend to exceed even race skis in price! and I'm not sure they are even as good, unless you want a wider ski. Probably not the case if you ski here in the east. The weight relationship can be tricky. For example, I'm 5'6" and weigh 130 and skied for years on skis too stiff for me. I finally found specs for Fischer's cutoff weight for junior and adult skis. The upper limit for the junior skis is 135 so I tried them and was delighted. Because I'm within 5 pounds of the upper weight limit for the skis they are relatively easy for me to flex but still have the torsional rigidity to hang on to crazy arcs. My son is a sophomore in high school and a good racer. He tried my skis but at 145 lbs, because his weight was enough to make the tips and tails wash they would not hold a turn. Now he skis adult skis but is at the other end of the spectrum, just above the lower weight limit. This makes the skis more difficult to carve and demands greater skill and strength - not a bad thing for a developing racer. An adult learning would probably be better off with more generous flex.
There is some lessening of longitudinal stiffness with decrease in length built in to skis which is the main reason for a lighter skier to use a shorter ski, regardless of height. My guess for you is that a 155 Fischer slalom ski would be about right and ought to carve like crazy. Atomics are softer lengthwise so you might be ok with a 165 but the only way to know for sure is to try them. My personal opinion - stay away from Rossis. First you have to have your skill at the level where you are actually testing the skis for the technique you want. If you want to ski really fast then a GS ski is called for but my guess is you'll want to get it down on shorter radius turns first.

Cheers.

Just to add to this debate I'm no expert but have skied about 25 years. I've been on Salomon F2s for the last 10 years refusing to be sucked into yet another gimick of skies that look like spoons. (or so I thought!) but I tried a pair of salomon 165 'spoons' hire skies this year on hard packed conditions in Saux and they were brilliant. I had tried 2 pairs previously and hated them one was Volkyl and one Rossignol. I think they were both too stiff. So if I were you I would specify Salomon skies and if they don't have them go to a shop that has and ask for soft flex whatever your weight, about 165s will be fine as you don't need long and therefore faster skis.